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Ask the Pros
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Trolling
and boat speed questions
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| Q: Hello sir, I
am in the military and am new to the area. I really enjoy your site
and have learned a lot off of it already. Thank You. My question is
about fishing the tide. What is meant by fishing 1 hour before and
two hours after the tide? Is that incoming or outgoing tide? I am
in the Tacoma area and going to the slag pile and do not have a down
rigger. I have read your postings from other questions and gathered
that you really don't care for deep 6, is there another option? Sorry
this was kind of long, but I really love fishing and catching a king
would be a great accomplishment for me! Thank you for your time, and
again great web site! Shane! |
| A: Shane, Fishing the tide means
the tide change, one hour before to two hours after the tide change,
incoming or outgoing. The salmon like to feed during the slack water
of the tide change as they don't have to fight the current to feed,
and they burn less energy then. The Slag pile is best fished after
the high flood tide. It will be tougher without a downrigger but you
can troll Dipsy Divers with herring as a bait during August/September
and have a good chance of catching salmon at the Slag Pile and at
the mouth of the Puyallup River after 12 Aug. opener. Good luck Capt.
John |
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Q: John, I see
on this website that you recommend trolling at 2.5 to 3 knots for
Blackmouth. I know that most people suggest trolling with the tide
(current). With a strong current at Midchannel Bank our GPS shows
our speed over ground (SOG) at better than 5 knots. Is this effective
fishing? We run 15 lb balls on our Scotties so we have no problem
staying in contact with the bottom.... Thanks for your help... Jeff
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A: Jeff, you're
right, you want to fish with the current, the mistake many anglers
make is not trolling fast enough when going with the current. If your
GPS reading is 5 Knots your tackle may only be going 1.5 knots.
I suggest you use your downrigger wire as a guide, if you have a 45
degree angle on it your flasher / squid combo will be turning over
correctly. Just remember you will need to let out more cable to over
come the blowback from the faster speed to keep in contact with the
bottom. Good luck, Capt. John
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Q: Hi John!
Question regarding trolling in the same direction as the current. After
reaching the end of a trolling pattern, do you recommend bringing in your gear
and run back to the starting point again. Or do you troll back zig zagging
across the current? Also, fishing at Pt. Defiance/ Pt.Dalco, have you ever
found the current too fast to effectively troll opting to mooch instead?
Thanks! Marv
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A: Marv, you
answered your own question. At the end of troll when the current is strong I
pick up the gear and run back up and start the troll over again. Trolling
against the current other then slack tide is a waste of time. John
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| Q: Hi John,
I'm having problems with my bucktails and kingfisher spoons twisting and
tangling behind my 11" flasher and Deep 6. I tie the bucktails and spoons
40"-42" behind the flasher, and have ~ 6' of line between the flasher and Deep
6. I'm trolling 2 - 2.5 knots, use swivels, and 25 lb. test. Any suggestions
how to cure this? Thanks, Tom |
A: Tom,
where do I start! First lose the Deep Six and get a downrigger! If you troll a
Deep Six with a 11 inch flasher you would be lucky to be fishing 10 ft. down in
the water column trolling at 2-2.5mph regardless of how much line you let out.
You may catch a few coho later in the season, and a king once in awhile early
in the morning but that's about it!
If you want to fish a Deep Six try
running just the spoon solo behind the Deep Six, you will be able to fish a
little deeper maybe 50ft in the right conditions but I would still invest in a
downrigger if you want to do some serious salmon fishing. This will also cure
your line twist problem and put a lot more fish in the box. Capt. John
Keizer
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Q: John, In
your opinion which rod should go on the bottom, the back rod straight out the
stern and the bottom or top be ran out futher from the cable. Fishing sekiu all
next week and just mounted a pair of scotty's 1106 on my sled. kind of a over
kill with the ext. booms but i figured what the heck, its only money... got
with the guys at Tyee Tackle and they set me up with flashers and hoochies in
shades of green. Thanks in advance, Sam
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A: Sorry for
the late answer we have been testing new lures in Canada and running day and
evening charters for week now.
Sam, I would use the back rod on the bottom,
it should make for a smoother release. Capt. John
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Q: John,
when I'm trolling for king salmon in the puget sound how far do iI let my line
out before attaching it to my downrigger clip? I hope to here from you soon.
Gary
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A: I run my
flashers back 20-25ft for fall kings. Capt. John
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Q: Hi John,
Last week I fished both Claybanks and Lyle Pt. I could not keep the jellyfish
off my line. I had no success on salmon. I saw thousands of jellyfish
around and I am sure I was fouled within five minutes on every troll. Do you
know how long this activity lasts as I suspect they are spawning? Also, have
you any suggestions on how to avoid jellyfish fouling? Thankyou, You guys have
a terrific site!! Dave
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A: Dave,
Jellyfish are just part of Puget Sound Fishing. You just deal with them. June
is usually the worst month. Capt. John
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Q: Hi Tom,
when you are trolling for coho (and chinookies I suppose) how tight do you set
your release clips? My dad and I disagree on the issue. I put my line as far
back in the clip as possible (more tension) while my dad puts his line
somewhere in the middle (much less tension). I think that the higher tension
helps set the hooks in the fish while it struggles for those few extra seconds
trying to break free from the downrigger. The only drawback for me is that I
have trouble popping my line off the clip when I want to check my line. My dad
doesn't have that problem. Instead, my dads line occasionally breaks free for
no reason. I don't have that problem. I have noticed that he loses a few more
fish than I do but I don't know if that has to do with the downrigger release
tension. So my question is, is the added tension I'm creating by putting my
line further back in the clip have any advantages or am I creating more hassle?
Is there a right answer or is it personal preference?Thanks in advance.
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A: Hi,
setting the tension on your release clips is largely a matter of preference. I
try to set mine so that a four pound salmon will break it loose. I often will
adjust my tension tighter during a days fishing if kelp or weed in the water
begins to build up on my line. The important thing to remember is when a salmon
strikes, don't set the hook as the tension on your release clip has already set
the hook. I have seen a lot of salmon that are lightly hooked lost, as the
angler tries to set the hook again. Tom
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Q: John, I
have a 24 foot Sea Ray with no kicker motor. Just this summer I put on a scotty
electric. My boat is powered with a 350ci and I suspect may be pushing me a
little fast for kings. I plan on doing some blackmouth fishing this winter and
was wondering if you feel a kicker motor, to slow my troll, would improve my
chances. Thanks a lot.....Mike
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A: Mike, I
what I like to see for trolling flashers is a 45 degree angle on my downrigger
wire while I'm trolling. That works out on most boats to 2.5-3 MPH. There are
times when I'm pulling herring or chum fishing I troll slower 1-1.5 MPH. If
you're in this range you're OK. If not you might want to look at a 4 stroke
kicker motor, they are very fuel efficient and smoke free and made to troll for
extended periods of time without loading up. Capt. John
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Q: Short and
sweet , ive been considering buying in line rods to run off my downriggers. do
they really save wear and tear on the eyes and stress on the rod? bill from
dupont
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A: Bill, the
in line rods do save wear and tear since there are no eyes, the two problems we
have had with them is they're tough to thread the line through and during the
summer algae bloom in Puget Sound the inside of the rod gets plugged up with
grass. On our charters we have stayed with the conventional style rods for
salmon fishing. Capt. John
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Q: Thanks
for your speedy reply, you pointed out something i forgot about. accumalation
of garbage that would likely plug up the rod and or tip. there was another
question i forgot to ask,it is how to figure out how far down you really are
when you troll at such a speed your ball is at an angle.is there a magic
formula? thanks again !bill (walleye willie) from dupont.
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A: Bill, the
easiest way to find your "angle of the dangle" as we refer to it, is start
trolling at the correct speed for your boat to make a flasher turn over
properly. You should be looking for a fast rotation on the flashers not a slow
roll as with a plain herring. On most boats this is somewhere between 2-3 MPH
always error on the faster side. Then lower your downrigger weight until it
hits bottom. The difference between you sonar depth and your downrigger counter
is the amount of blow back you will have to account for to reach a certain
depth at your trolling speed. You will want to try deferent depths and speeds
and keep a log if you want to be exact. On my boat at 2.5 MPH with a 15 lb.
downrigger ball trolling a large HotSpot flasher I need to let out 126 ft. to
hit bottom in 100 ft. of water. This being all find and dandy most trollers
just hit the bottom with their weights and bring it up 2 ft. and start trolling
then just keep repeating the process as they change depths while blackmouth
fishing. Good luck, Capt. John Keizer
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Q: Hi John,
I can't keep the shakers off of my lines. I try all different depths and speeds
and I am consistently catching them. I fish with herring and use a black box
set at .65 to .75. Any ideas or is this a good thing? "No Worries"
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A: We all
have this problem. The best advice I can give you is to check your tackle more
often this time of the year when the juveniles are released from the hatchery.
I have seen 3 in. salmon hit a 6 in. plug with a 7/0 hook, so size won't help.
Just remember not to handle them, just use a release stick and unhook them in
the water without traumatizing them. We need as many to grow to the legal
22-inch. as possible. Take care, Capt. John
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Q: hi, great
web site, my question is towards the 2003 blackmouth fish season..I've herd
120ft water is ideal and running the later 20 to 30ft of the depth..I have
manual downriggers and wondered if there was a average depth for running in
120+ft of water, so not to worry about getting things tangled and stuck on
bottom..I've herd of the style of dropping the downrigger to bottom and then 2
to 4 ft above that, but with changing bottom depth and not being with electric
downriggers tied to depth finder how does a guy figure the average depth to
fish for the blackmouth and avoid snag's or lost equipment? And have you
found better luck running flasher - hoochie and strip bait or gel (vs.) a
flasher and plug herring For our local blackmouth? I fish area 5 and 6. Thanks
for the advice, Wahoo
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A: Guy, you
are correct in stating that 120 ft is ideal blackmouth water, however that is
just a place to start. I look for feed, herring, candlefish, squid or shrimp. I
would rather be in 90 or 200 ft of water than in 120 if there is not any feed
when it comes to catching winter blackmouth. As far as losing equipment on the
bottom that's just part of belonging to the club, if you fish near the bottom
it's just a matter of time, it happens to all of us, but if you want to catch
fish you have to have your offering down where they live. As far as tackle
selection, I lean towards matching the local feed. Big herring, run a plug or
large squid. Candlefish, try a Silver Horde Coho Killer spoon. Best of luck,
Capt. John
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Q: John,
here is a scenario I have encountered several times and am curious to your
answer. While blackmouth fishing it has been told one of the keys is to stay
within 10' of the bottom. What if all of the bait you are marking and seeing is
right on top or only about 30' down in 150' of water? Do you still drag the
bottom or bring your lines up to the bait? Thanks for the great site! Bryan
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| A: Bryan, if
it was early morning or just before dark I would fish the bait in a case like
this, or I might just pull one rigger up into this upper range. Blackmouth
don't like light, if it was dark overcast day I might try it too. However 90%
of the winter blackmouth will come right near bottom. Good Fishing, Capt.
John |
Q: Hello
John, just curious, I live in Australia and all things I have read on catching
salmon with bait fish, the baits are rigged in such a way that they spirial to
look like a wounded fish. My question is, if bait fish was rigged to swim in a
upright position like when trolling for Mackeral and trolled slowly, would it
not be very effective?
Regards, Leigh
Daley |
| A: Leigh, I
have spend several years bill fishing Mexico and the South Pacific and have
found that Marlin/warm water salt fish like the swimming tail bait or one that
swims straight. Salmon on the other hand love to kill a wounded bait fish which
is what a rotating herring imitates. Gook luck. Capt. John |
Q: Tom, you
maintain a 45 degree downrigger cable angle is best when trolling for chinook.
Could you please let me know what size of weight you are using and what depth
your downrigger is set at to attain a 45 degree angle. (If your trolling at 60
feet with a 45 degree cable angle, you obviously need a much greater cable
angle at 120 feet to maintain the same trolling speed.)
Thanks,
Kevin. |
A: Kevin,
Actually, 45 degrees would be the maximum angle. 30 degrees is what you should
be looking for most of the year. The angle of your downrigger cable is a little
bit deceiving. After the cable breaks the surface tension of the water, it goes
almost straight down and once you get deep enough, it begins to tail out. Since
fish can see in front of them, to the side of them and up, but not down, a
slight error in your downrigger depth won't hurt your fishing effort.
Ordinarily, we use 15 lb downrigger balls on our side downriggers and 10-12 lb
balls on the two rear ones. But, no matter what the weight of the ball is, we
still must adjust our trolling speed to different conditions.
The
actual depth of your downrigger ball will be very close to what your counter is
actually reading. Be aware that some electric downriggers can be harmed by
using a 15 lb. downrigger ball. That is why both John and I use Scotty
Downriggers. If you don't have Scotty, read your instruction manual and make
sure your downrigger can handle a 15 lb. ball.
One last thing, you
should always troll in the same direction the tide is running. If you are
trolling against the tide, the depth of your downrigger ball is so wildly
inaccurate, there is no way to calculate the actual depth you are fishing at.
Tom |
Q: Tom, I've
fished Puget Sound for years, but always for Kings, Coho and Pinks. Guess you
could say I've been a fair-weather fisherman.
I've picked up a new boat
this year, a Pursuit 2470, with a hardtop, side enclosure, drop curtain and (at
my wife's insistence) a Webasto furnace. So...I guess I'm ready to fish this
November and December for Chums. I've never targeted Chums--have hooked a few
incidentally while fishing for Coho--and wonder where I should be fishing and
what gear I should be using.
I keep my boat at Edmonds, any good areas
on the East Side of the Sound, or do I need to head over to the other side?
Thanks, much.
Steve Robinson |
A: Steven,
sounds like you got a nice boat! Pound for Pound, Chum are probably the hardest
fighting fish in Puget Sound and once you learn how, are very easy to catch. We
have information on how to catch Chum on our Website. On the left side bar
under Education, click on "Online Lessons". Chum return to most rivers in the
Puget Sound area. A great number will be returning to the Snohomish system,
however the main returns will be down the east side of Puget Sound and into
Hood Canal.
In the "Online Lesson" On Chum, we recommend large hooks.
However, many fishermen have had a hard time finding hooks in this size. A pair
of 5/O hooks tied in tandem will also work very well. I would recommend "Owner"
hooks since they are the sharpest on the market and by far and away the
strongest. Tom |
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